As flight hours, aircraft orders, and charter and fractional sales soared during the pandemic and the immediate aftermath, maintenance shops found their hangars filled and backlogs growing. Capacity became an issue for many reasons: too much work all at once, a supply chain that still has not recovered from the disruptions of the pandemic, and a workforce shortage. Adding to that has been the growth in the number of larger aircraft and more extensive aircraft projects. AIN brought together thought leaders to discuss the quandary maintenance shops are facing in light of this, what they are doing to mitigate these issues, and how the future is shaping up for the sector.
Here are some of the highlights from those discussions. Duncan Aviation sponsored this roundtable.
The Participants:
Ryan Huss—v-p of sales and marketing for Duncan Aviation
Duncan Aviation is one of the largest independent business aviation MROs in the U.S. with full-service facilities at its headquarters in Lincoln, Nebraska; Provo, Utah; and Battle Creek, Michigan, that offer a range of maintenance, installation, and upgrades, along with interior refurbishment work and paint. In addition, it operates more than 30 satellite locations throughout the U.S. and offers rapid response teams in the field.
Marsha Woelber—v-p of customer support and aftermarket sales for Embraer Executive Jets
Embraer Executive Jets supports more than 1,600 aircraft through its owned service centers in North America, Brazil, and Europe, in addition to a network of authorized service centers globally, and through landing gear, maintenance health monitoring and tracking, and other customer service initiatives.
Ken Thompson—senior advisor for government affairs and regulatory affairs with the National Air Transportation Association
The National Air Transportation Association represents business and general aviation businesses, including MROs, at the federal level, and provides a range of services and educational programs for its members. Its Aircraft Maintenance and Systems Technology Committee works with association members on issues surrounding aviation maintenance, repair stations, and aviation technology
Andrew Kiehl—v-p of fleet maintenance for Executive Jet Management
An arm of fractional ownership provider NetJets, Executive Jet Management (EJM), manages a fleet of more than 200 aircraft across the U.S., ranging from light jets to ultra-long-range models. Its services include providing crews, maintaining the aircraft, ensuring hangarage, and invoicing management, among other support. EJM also offers charter services.
The Discussion
On the current business environment in the MRO sector
Marsha Woelber
From a big-picture standpoint, there are such strong aircraft sales, and not only from a new aircraft perspective. We're very pleased with that. We have a record-level backlog at Embraer, as well as in the secondary market. So of course, any type of aircraft being in service drives the demand for maintenance, and more aircraft turning around in the secondary drives the need for aftermarket inspections and lots of modifications. So, we've seen a huge, huge demand and, given our backlog, we know that that's here to stay.
Ryan Huss
It's as busy as it's ever been. We thought maybe coming through 2021 [and] 2022, we would see things maybe start to get a little bit better as far as backlog is concerned. But backlog right now is in the 2025 [or] 2026 timeframe for major projects. You can always get in the smaller type projects, but if you have a big inspection coming up, you need to be well out front of it, not just for the labor capacity and the hangar, but also if you're doing interior with it or anything like that. There are still some [supply] concerns that are out there.
I agree with Marsha about the sentiment in the market and the direction companies are going. It's across the board. I think everybody out there right now has pretty significant backlogs, especially for the larger projects.
Andrew Kiehl
It's been a theme for the last year or so that we have to be extremely proactive and be way ahead of things. Right now, it's interesting from a connectivity standpoint; there are a lot of new things entering that space. Starlink is out there making a splash. But all the other OEMs have new unique products out there that are super competitive. So that's driving a lot of questions. From a lot of our aircraft owners—our clients—obsolescence is a big issue right now. So, we're faced with a lot of mods and different strategies to try to hit that head-on, keep the aircraft flying, and be in a place where we've got access to good parts.
Ken Thompson
A lot of our members are saying that the beginning of this year was kind of slow but now it's getting really busy. April and May have picked up for MROs. Some of our members are saying airports are raising their rates so high. The [airport commissions] don't see the significance of what the [MROs] bring to the table as far as revenue and the benefits of being able to repair aircraft, the smaller aircraft in general. They're being squeezed out, and they're having to shut down 145 repair stations because of the airport's lack of interest.
On Finding Capacity
Andrew Kiehl
It's not easy at all. It's still getting a bit longer, particularly with large-cabin airplanes. [Large] projects are several months in duration. To have a [Bombardier] Global or a [Gulfstream] G550 or whatever large-cabin aircraft, we're talking about sitting in a hangar for that long to go through those big heavy checks and to go through refurbishment. They're not knocking out inspections and putting them right back in the service. So capacity is still an issue. A partner of ours [indicated] nine to twelve months out is still where we are when it comes to those kinds of projects. I think it's back and forth whether it's real estate or workforce, which one is going to become the driving factor. You may have the hangar, but do you have the technicians to perform the work?
Ryan Huss
We've opened two new 47,000-sq-ft hangars here in the last four months. One in Battle Creek and then one here in Lincoln. That has helped, but the capacity is still greater than the hangars around North America, and we are seeing more international aircraft coming over now. I think some of that is driven by cost internationally.
But even building just the hangar, that's only part of the equation. It's the people, and we have to get trained individuals working on these airplanes. You can build a 47,000-sq-ft hangar, but hiring, getting trained people in the facility, and getting them running smoothly takes time. It's not a quick fix for any of us out there. I know most MROs in the industry are experiencing the same need for qualified technicians and are trying to grow their own technicians. I think we're all doing that to some extent. We have got a ways to go still.
Marsha Woelber
We also have expanded, looking at an international perspective. We doubled the size of our Brazil facility. This year, we will double our footprint in North America, and we just announced an expansion in Paris at Le Bourget Airport. So, there's a real focus on adding capacity. There's a lot of consolidation in the industry, but some of that is not actually adding capacity.
And I agree on building [capacity]. How do we recruit great technicians? I think we've exchanged a lot of them throughout the MROs. There's been people moving all around the business, and we've just been focusing on the people. We know that aside from the technical skills, culture matters a lot. So, we focused on making sure that we have a great workplace and that our technicians are feeling the work-life balance that we want. There was much more attrition during the pandemic, and that settled down quite a bit.
Ken Thompson
Having premium space and being able to schedule people for maintenance is really difficult. You have to think through: “How do I turn aircraft out with the hangar to bring new aircraft in?” It has to be planned well in advance because you don't have enough footprint for it. Adding to it and building hangars is expensive. And we don't have the workforce to support it.
On Supply Chain
Marsha Woelber
Part of the issue with capacity is directly related to parts. Some of these maintenance events are taking much, much longer because of static in the supply chain. I think the more that stabilizes, the more visibility we'll have on the true downtime of maintenance events.
Ken Thompson
[Our members] are seeing a lot of the supply chain issues that we saw prior to the pandemic and during the pandemic. They see a little bit of an uptick, but there are still certain items they're having issues with a backlog on it, and it's holding up [projects].
Andrew Kiehl
Some of the things are getting better. During Covid, we were talking about tires, different greases, and consumables. A lot of that was due to some unfortunate events—there were a couple of warehouse fires and other things that created that issue.
But I don't think supply chain issues are gone because now we're hitting obsolescence. A lot of our avionics programs are dropping certain part numbers because they've gone obsolete. That’s going to continue to be an issue for a while.
It goes back to being proactive and understanding what you've got and staying ahead of those types of things. When an avionics OEM issues some kind of upgrade opportunity, maybe you don't need it today, but maybe that's a little clue that they're not going to support that part three or four years from now. So, put it in the budget and start thinking about the best two times to get that done.
Connectivity seems to be doing pretty well right now with the different options that we've got available. But if we're talking about upgrading a cabin management system or things that require custom software, that's still a pretty long lead time. I would hope anybody planning cabin management replacement or a large project like replacing interior soft goods or paint would be way ahead in talking about that—months in advance. But a lot of times, you have an aircraft owner or a buyer who will buy an aircraft and then want to put some type of modification right in, and you're backed up against the wall.
On Workforce Initiatives
Ken Thompson
The pandemic was one issue as far as workforce development. But another issue was like me, I'm a baby boomer. We all retired. There was a ton in my age group. I actually got my 50-year award just about a month ago, the Charles Taylor Master Mechanic Award, from the FAA. So that's 50 years as a mechanic. Those people are retiring.
Thank goodness we have apprenticeship programs like they have at Duncan. NATA has an apprenticeship tool that we provide to our members that they could use as a tracking system for when an apprentice has accomplished a task that was recognized by the FAA. It will record their knowledge, their safety issues, and their technical aspects of being able to get their airframe and powerplant certificate through testing. If you use that tool, you can walk right into the Flight Standards District Office and they can sign you off and you start testing. Kudos to those companies developing apprenticeship programs to help develop people.
Ryan Huss
We run [apprenticeship programs] in all three facilities: Battle Creek, Provo, and Lincoln. We have dedicated trainers who work in those areas. The basic setup is that the technicians will work four days a week in the hangar, being supervised and trained. On the fifth day, they are over on the classroom side doing in-house training through the books. And then at 18 months, they are qualified to test for the A or P. If they wish to test for both, then they wait for the 30-month period. But we've had good success.
We found that our best success rate for growing people is to get people from the local areas. It makes sense. They're anchored by family typically, and they're used to the gorgeous scenery of Nebraska. We've been doing it now for about two and a half years. I think we've had over 100 folks go through the program.
We work with the local technical colleges. We're working on some programs to help them get their associate's degree at the same time they are training. That’s a big step when you look at the money savings they're getting and they're being paid while working.
We did build a hangar in one of the high schools here in Lincoln, where they have an airplane to work on; they've got flight controls, all the rigging-type stuff. It's driven not just to mechanical. It's also driving student interest in being a pilot or anything like that.
Marsha Woelber
I think we're going to see a lot more interest in the industry. Something that we've tried to do—and that we feel very passionate about—is just making sure that young people know about careers in aviation because many of them don't. It's important for us to elevate the status of the industry so that people know that they can work with us. We have outreach programs in Brazil, Paris, and the U.S.— at Marshall University, we just graduated our first class, [and at] Pittsburgh Institute of Aeronautics and West Michigan Aviation Academy.
In our Melbourne (Florida) facility, our U.S. headquarters, we just hosted a class of students to come through and see all parts of the OEM, so the maintenance is one piece. They went through production and met with HR. It's helpful for people to see that there are a lot of careers in aviation as well.
Andrew Kiehl
I think everyone's doing a great job of realizing that workforce development is something that is all of our responsibilities. A lot of the MROs are creating their own programs where they will have apprenticeship-type programs. They can come and work during the day. They can go to a classroom setting and learn. They may graduate with an airframe or a powerplant certificate, which I think is fantastic.
Even down to just sharing what we do with the younger generation helps. Just last week, we had two high school students that came here. They were brothers. One was interested in becoming a pilot, and the other was interested in becoming an auto mechanic. We spent a couple of hours with them, and showed them some airplanes, showed them a hangar, and let them crawl around and see what it was about. I could definitely see both of those young gentlemen joining our industries.
I think that if we all just take a little bit of time to think about what we do, it's really cool. It's a really neat industry, and if we just share that a little bit, maybe we'll do it organically and start bringing new young folks into our industry.
Ken Thompson
One of our members is in partnership with one of the schools near their location. They allow the students to come over and work with mechanics, hands on the aircraft, and get practical experience while they're going to school. It opens the door for opportunities to hire them if they're actually fitting the mold of the company. How valuable is that for someone who's managing a hangar to have people who have actually worked on the airplanes?
On Managing Customer Expectations in Light of Capacity Constraints
Marsha Woelber
Historically, people in this industry try to group major events together just to reduce downtime overall. This predates any type of supply chain issue. Some of them have learned the hard way that you can't just drop in for scheduled maintenance anymore.
The best thing to do again, aside from planning in advance, is just communicate, communicate, communicate.
And it's important we know what parts are in short supply. We tell our customers to avoid these surprises. And we make sure that there's just a lot of communication about what's going on in the whole ecosystem.
All the orders are being placed ahead of time because it's such a fragile ecosystem; you need to make sure that everyone's talking. So, in addition to planning in advance, communicate and don’t make assumptions about anything that's going on.
Ryan Huss
The whole key to it is honesty. You have to be upfront with them: “If you come in for this event, here's what we're looking at for lead times. The sooner we can schedule, the sooner we get a deposit, the sooner we can order things, the better.” The best shot of mitigating extended downtime is advanced scheduling and getting the deposit in so we can order the parts and get them coming. If we wait until two to three weeks out to try and order a part, it's just not going to happen without extending the downtime.
We're doing some other things as well, just from a functionality standpoint. We're looking at exchange options for certain things. But it's tough because it's expensive to get the landing gear lined up or the engines. We try to get rentals to mitigate their downtime, but they're not always available. The sooner you can get on that rental list, the better.
[As far as stacking jobs to maximize time], we usually have those discussions quite a ways prior to arrival. We have those discussions about what connectivity system you have in your airplane. Are you aware of the obsolescence of certain systems in 2025? And then, we try to educate them on the options, the benefits of doing maybe connectivity, a new CMS, or maybe just interior. But we try to educate them on both the financial and the time savings. For sure, we try to maximize the amount of work being done on the airplane when it's in the interest of the customer.
Andrew Kiehl
For us, it's just being transparent with our vendor partners that we utilize frequently. We've got standing open discussions with them talking about our fleet, what's coming due, and not holding our part so close to the vest that we've got an aircraft that's got a 96-month inspection due next year. Let's start talking about that this year.
At EJM, we’re not just planning the next maintenance visit. We're planning the next two because we have to consider what are we not doing this visit and what we're going to push off to the next inspection. We've got to make sure that we've got the time and the hours remaining to do that. So, as we think about those next two visits, let's go ahead and share that with our vendor partners who are going to be doing the work. That way they know what we've got coming down the pipeline, and they can plan for it on our behalf as well.
Ken Thompson
There are specific businesses like the Duncans and Embraers ready for a total retrofit, they're looking at all the upgrades at that point in time. But you have these smaller MROs. [Customers] come into the shop, and they want to get something specifically done. And if you add any other elements to that, sometimes you have people working over the top of each other. You may have avionics, you may have structures, and you may have interiors working in there. These smaller MROs aren't accustomed to that.
So, they would do double billing, and that turns customers off. But they have to be able to make the profits they need to stay in business. You can see where it could be a little bit of a conflict for them to take on extra work at the same time. If they don't have the personnel and the availability to get those parts and be able to manage the people well enough, it can be a little bit confusing and complicated.
Whereas when a business does total retrofits and they understand that business plan, then it should go a little bit easier than it does for the smaller MROs.
A lot of times, the aircraft owner will come in with the intent of doing these retrofits and these modifications and they always add something to it. “I need this while you're in there. I want you to go ahead and give me a new big cabin bar in my aircraft… I don't like the one I have.” It delays deliveries, and it doesn't make it easy for the MROs.
Marsha Woelber
There's a lot of irony there, Ken, because we want customers to do that. That’s why they have their airplanes. We want them to be exactly what they want to be. So, it's frustrating for everyone when we can't deliver on time, for sure.
Ryan Huss
That's always going to be a challenge. I think it's worse now than it's ever been because of the backlog. Our customer signs for a major inspection now, they don't come in until June of 2026 and between now and then, the owner may drastically change how they feel about the aircraft paint or the upholstery or anything in the airplane. That is a certain challenge—trying to stay balanced is what we really struggle with.
For airframe, we could fill up today for the next three years. But how do you stay balanced with your other modification shops, your install shop, and those groups? Making the most efficient usage of that square footage is paramount to the major OEMs and MROs.
On AOG Situations
Andrew Kiehl
It seems like the MRO options out there have expanded in the past number of years. There are more and more AOG-type maintenance trucks, little repair teams, Fast teams, whatever the flavor is. There's a lot more of that type of maintenance available, which is great and keeps us moving.
A lot of companies are spreading out. They've got trucks all across the country or across the globe. So, it is nice having that regional maintenance. We're not waiting on somebody to fly from across the country to come and help in an AOG situation. That's been a nice shift.
I think we've got a lot more maintenance at our fingertips as it pertains to that unscheduled maintenance.
But really the scheduled piece, if we want to be in a hangar and have a slot, that hasn't gotten much better.
Marsha Woelber
Concurrent with our U.S. growth, we have significantly increased capacity with our mobile response as well. When you're planning work at an MRO, there’s a Rubik's Cube to a certain extent, just to make sure that you have some of the capacity for drop-ins.
We know that these AOG teams are needed in the field for when there is no space or a customer is broken down somewhere. So, all of this growth is happening.
One thing I will say is technologies such as health-trend monitoring are helping us get ahead of these things and study the airplanes. But of course, we need to grow. We need to have the trucks as well.
Ryan Huss
There's been a shift from pre-Covid AOG and rapid response type calls that were truly driven towards AOG needs: “The aircraft is broken, and I need people here.” We've seen more and more utilization of these AOG folks for routine engine inspections or minor assistance inspections, and that's put more stress on it.
We've all grown [our mobile response teams]. I would say though that for an operator that has an AOG, they may not get their first couple of calls and somebody dispatched right away. They’re going to reach out probably to two or three different providers, whoever has the first availability is more than likely who they are going to take.
I think if we can get off of trying to utilize these folks for the scheduled stuff that they know is coming, that would help with the true AOG response.
Marsha Woelber
What's interesting about this concept where the AOG trucks are doing scheduled maintenance, there's an economic impact there for the customers. It's more expensive, and the customers will just pay. It's been a really interesting time as it relates to pricing because we know that these aircraft give our customers time, and they're willing to pay for it. We've seen that.
One thing that I will say is that the common thread that extends AOG is materials. It's not badging or the availability of trucks. It's waiting for parts. It's a challenge that customers call several different organizations trying to find AOG support. As the OEM, sometimes we're coordinating that event. We've taken some criticism on behalf of the industry because of the lack of AOG support. I'm glad that we're responding to that because we sell these jets to provide the ultimate experience in business aviation, and if the aircraft’s down and you're calling multiple places, it's very frustrating. So it's great to see everyone growing, and certainly we are doing that as well.
On New Technologies
Ryan Huss
With scheduling, as we discussed, people or customers add on stuff. We're investing in and working pretty significantly in AI—looking at our past history on inspections, what kind of inspection, where's the airplane from, have we seen it before, how have they squawked in the past, and trying to paint a better picture for the actual down times. We're having decent success so far.
The Rubik's Cube, which is what we call it as well, isn't completely perfect yet. But I think that's where we're going to be able to paint a lot more accurate picture for customers and our teams.
That's one area we're moving. We are certainly looking at some things in the paint area. I know there are folks out there who use some robotic sanders for the metallic areas with what appears to be good success. So, we're looking at that technology. Sanding an airplane, although it sounds really glamorous, is not—very labor intensive, tough on the shoulders, and ergonomically a little bit difficult. The more we can take the human element out of that, the better.
Marsha Woelber
Something that we've developed is a troubleshooting app called Smart Troubleshooting, which essentially takes all the data that we've gleaned from our engineering database. We have a 24/7 customer care center that fields AOG calls, and we know what we've done to troubleshoot and fix these issues. It's available to MROs. Some customers use it and that helps a lot. It consolidates the [fault isolation manual] and allows you to move more quickly through an event.
Another thing is more sophisticated tools as it relates to materials and materials planning. One [advancement] is using AI for inventory planning. We've talked about how hard it is to do this, and certainly, there's no crystal ball. But, we can use all of the data that we have as the OEM to make sure that we have the right parts in the right places at the right times.
Another thing that we're doing that we just launched this year is a repair database that essentially links Embraer and our suppliers, which for repairable parts is a very large percentage of the inventory. It allows us all to communicate. It allows us to speak with all of our suppliers in a digital way. I think leveling up that technology is going to help everyone because parts are such a bottleneck. The more transparency we can give to Ryan and his peers as they're working on this aircraft, the better it is and the faster it is for everyone.
Ryan Huss
We've done something similar on the parts side. We have a lot of OEMs who post through a virtual inventory online. We've made that. We just rolled out phase one of that, DuncanAviationparts.com. It allows the customer to type in the part number, look at the part, look at the cost, and look at the tag; everything is easily accessible to him or her, regardless of the time of day [or] where they are in the world. They can go ahead and process the orders. We have 24/7 staffing as well with them. We're trying to make that a much easier experience.
Ken Thompson
It's kind of ironic. I asked mechanics, “How do you see AI fit in your world?” And they're all puzzled. They're not sure what it's going to look like as far as future mechanics actually doing the work. But they do see advantages if they have an SMS [safety management system] or a quality assurance program where they can do trend monitoring, analysis, and root cause analysis.
So, they're starting to see the benefits. And there are a lot of labor-intensive jobs with people that we may be able to use AI to take that workload and get the answers quickly. But they don't know yet if it is going to actually do riveting on the aircraft in the facility. I think the human element is still going to be needed for quite a while.
Andrew Kiehl
We have a bit of a luxury here by having some specialists in some key areas. We have our engine program manager who's going to review those engine health trends that are coming. We can do that engine work at ideally a bit more opportune time if the health trend monitor allows us to do that. We've got avionics folks who can advise our planning team on what's coming down the pipeline from a cabin management upgrade or a connectivity solution standpoint, so we can stay ahead of those types of things.
But really staying ahead of your maintenance tracking program, understanding how the clients are going to use the aircraft over the next couple of years, and forecasting what's going to be coming due—staying in tune with what's going on with your particular aircraft service, bulletins, and certain mods that are available—I think is still just the bread and butter of keeping up with the particular aircraft that you're operating.
We do have an in-house tracking program that all of our aircraft are on in addition to what I'll say is the more industry-standard maintenance tracking programs. It bolts onto our flight tracking program, and we can forecast when maintenance is coming due.
It'll definitely be interesting to see what comes in the next couple of years. Given a fleet of our size, you have to have some pretty robust systems to make sure it's successful.
On Best Practices
Andrew Kiehl
One of the models I have is just giving the folks the tools and whatever resources they need to do their job well, and then letting them do their job. Whether we're talking about somebody on your team or a vendor partner, that's going to help you facilitate a project and complete an inspection. Be there, be a resource, give them all the tools, and everything that they need to do their job, and then let them do their best work.
Obviously, you trust the vendor because you picked them, you signed the proposal, and you took the airplane there. Hold them accountable.
But create a space where they feel employed to do a thorough job with the inspection. They're going to do fantastic work. You're in it together. With that, you're going to create an environment that is safe. They're not going to rush through an inspection, and ultimately, it's probably going to be a more effective, efficient project.
Whether you're a pilot or you're a maintainer, there's a lot of pressure on the need to execute the trip or to get the airplane back in service. It's always something that's felt. But I think we often find ourselves reminding folks that it's ok. Let's work at a professional pace. Let's slow down, let's be thorough.
Ryan Huss
For us, we've done additional training not just for the new technicians—it's personnel who are signing off their work. We need them to hold the new technicians to the highest standards. And that can be anything from, “Do you have your paperwork in your hand when you call over a [quality inspector] or an inspector to look at it?”
It's human nature when you do something 15 times; by the 15th, you think you've got it in your head and you don't need to print the manual or carry the iPad over there. That’s where we have to continuously push and educate our folks that it's zero tolerance. You have to have that paperwork every single time. It’s no different than if the FAA is standing there talking to you or your QI.
It is a challenge, the quality culture. This is going to take intentional effort on all of our parts to continue to keep business aviation as safe as it is.
One more thing is the culture. They have to bring it forward if they make a mistake. You can't have a punitive response. Otherwise, folks will try and hide it. You need that open dialogue where they feel safe to come forward and say I made a mistake. It happens. It's more of how can we move forward. What are the next steps, and what do we learn from that so it doesn't happen again? I think that's what is really important, and it's also managing owners' expectations: “We're going to do the job right, and it'll be done when it's done.” That's what keeps our customers coming back. We have to do these things. There are no shortcuts.
Marsha Woelber
Building on what Ryan said, it's extremely important to focus on that quality culture and on the core business. We have to keep in mind that our core business is maintaining these airplanes. Perhaps there are fancier and more efficient ways to do it, but when someone's in-house, we need to be repairing their aircraft in a safe way and with the highest quality standards.
Some of the things that we've done, which are probably quite standard across OEMs but we do very well, [are to] surround our visual management so that our technicians know what's going on and they understand how we are holding them and how we're accountable and how we're judging the quality of the jobs. That works very well because humans want to do a good job.
We really focus on the employees and the training, making sure that they understand some of the broader context, making sure that they know who our customers are when they're working on their airplane.
Ken Thompson
Something that I learned years ago is you cannot inspect quality into the product. It has to be built into the product. It has everything to do with the mechanic and having the right training. And I also understand the expectations. Communication is a wonderful tool. Retention of your people is important as well; your crew leads and your managers are the critical people you need in the organization to keep it consistent and give the incentive of the importance of safety first. Sometimes you just have to pay them a little bit more. It's an investment.
If you lose a crew leader or a crew manager, you feel those effects for several years until you backfill them with somebody who has the same mindset and is able to keep consistency and safety first.
I think that's where there are a lot of the issues. Especially with the smaller MROs, retention is a real problem because airlines are trying to talk them into coming on board with them. But the fact is keeping the right people in your core of your company is a part of quality.
The Bottom Line: What’s Ahead for MRO
Andrew Kiehl
We're definitely seeing more hangars being built. We're seeing locations expand. They're trying to get more airplanes in the barn and being able to take on more capability. Within our particular pipeline, we've got a lot of new deliveries coming. So that's exciting. But we do see a lot of aircraft that are coming to us, and they go through a refurbishment process to be like new, as much as they can. I see a lot of those large projects continuing, which means holding that shop space on the hangar floor at the MRO or the OEM. I don't think that that's going to get any easier anytime soon.
Ken Thompson
We have got UAS on the horizon. There's going be a plethora of air taxi services in the future, and there have to be mechanics to work on them. It has to be well defined by the FAA for what those expectations are for those types of mechanics and the training they need.
I also have a little bit of a warning about the supply of our chips and everything to operate our systems. Geopolitical issues could bring real problems. I'm hoping that our government is looking at ways that we need to mitigate that, start thinking about what is on the horizon, what could happen and rather than being reactive, be proactive.
Marsha Woelber
I think many of us are thinking along those lines already. A lot has gone on in the world here over the past four years. That requires that we rethink how we support this industry, and localizing our supply chain is certainly one of those [ways]. There are many different ways to do it.
Especially speaking from the OEM, we don't like to not have parts. We don't like to have shortages. We want our customers to have the best experience, and we will do everything we can as feasible so that we can do that.
As for what's ahead at Embraer, sales remain very strong. We will continue to focus on growth to support that backlog. That growth applies to investment in parts and things to make to make the parts, infrastructure, and ecosystem more seamless.
Ryan Huss
I think SAF has got to be a big player. We've heard enough about it now but there's enough concern in the world about carbon footprint that we're going to have to continue to move the needle that way. It is a challenge but we are making strides. It's going to continue to take time. The challenge is how do we get out of that spotlight and show that we're doing our part to make the world a better place, and I think we're moving in the right direction.
On the MRO growth, you're going to see it in certain regions. That's good news.
The biggest challenge on growth is again back to headcount. If we can gain enough young interested parties and keep growing our technician and pilot base, the industry will continue to be strong if we struggle in that regard.